All I can add to Ed and others' voices of support for our esteemed moderator
Mike Israel in his exploration of migration options is this: I subscribe to
another RV-related list called 'Champion Fleet Owners' that made precisely
this same transition a few months back, from Yahoogroups to a forums system
nearly identical to the vBulletin system Mike's devloping. Once you get
used to it the forum system is way better...REALLY...with features well
worth the small fuss.

And remember: this is NOT the first time Mike has successfully steered us a
new course. We've migrated before, and it was such a painless improvement
that scarcely anyone
remembers the old 'listbox' system.

So, register now at http://www.amphicar770.com/amphicarforum/register.php to
be ready for 2008!

Regards,
Bilgey

----- Original Message -----
From: WB6WSN
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 12:33 AM
Subject: RE: [amphicar-lovers] Amphicar-Lovers Forum: IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

From: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Israel
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 12:53 PM
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Amphicar-Lovers Forum:
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

Most likely I will close it to new posts. As mentioned, the new forum will
also incorporate a feature to receive/reply to messages via email.

Just a little background info about lists. Lists are not run democratically;
they are under the sole control of the list-owner (and host). The list-owner
can selectively allow, bar and remove list-members. The list-owner can also
halt or terminate the list at any time, even at 0400 on a Friday if that
suits him. I can't think of any "rights" that a list-member has.

The rational list-owner will want his list to succeed by being useful, so he
must use his czar-like powers only to enforce civility and decorum (zap the
porn and spammers and nut-cases).

The list-owner may decide to move the list to a different host, especially
if that new host offers features beyond those of the old host. The up-side
can be fun new features (like photo albums or sound
attachments or embedded
photos, etc). The down-side is the inevitable confusion (you need to begin
posting to a new address, there may be a slightly different "look & feel" to
the new interface) and some people just don't like change.

Assuming the move is well thought out, and the list-owner is committed to
the change, the list-owner will NOT want his old list competing with his new
list. He will close the old list as of some arbitrary date, perhaps leaving
only a post directing new-comers to the new list.

If anyone can't live with this, you are free to start your own list, on
Yahoo or somewhere else. (Nothing will make you appreciate the time and
effort that a list-owner puts into managing a list until you try it
yourself! )

I would hope that our community will not split into competing lists; having
a single focal point is a tremendously valuable capability. Some car
communities are so huge that they have
separate forums for engines,
suspension, body, etc. All the experts are not always in one spot, so
cross-forum issues are sometimes not thoroughly covered.

This move of the list will really be a shut-down of one list and the
population of another list. With Mike moving the list archives and other
overhead, it looks like nothing will be lost. Inevitably, there will be some
transitional problems. Mike should make a simple, step-by-step guide for
accessing the new list location, addressing any preference setting options
and describing how posts will flow in and out.

I'm ready to move, but I'll stay until Mike publishes his official cut-off
date. After that, the new list will probably take a week or so to sort out
new arrivals and give everyone a warm feeling that things are working right.
You may want to hold off critical issues and questions until you feel the
community is at ease with its new home.

Ed Price
El Cajon,
CA USA
67 Rust Guppy