rogtwo@aol.com

   

The discussion of VIN numbers got me interested in my own VIN Number -
100167.

First, let me make it absolutely clear that I'm new to Amphicars, and know
nothing about VIN numbers except what I just read on this list.

But, I decided to take a look at the VIN numbers listed at:

http://www.amphicar.com/members/members.html

I looked at all the VIN numbers, but (due to my own interest) I will deal
here with only 6 digit VIN numbers that start with "1". I recorded 43 of
these.

I then looked at the third digit in these 43 VIN's. In all cases, the third
digit (from the left) was either a 0, 1, 2, or 3. The following shows how
many of each of these I found:

0's - 20

1's - 11

2's - 1

3's - 11

IF the 3rd digit were just an additional sequential number, then I would
expect to see more 2's. That is, if the last 4 digits were all sequential,
then we would know that there were 1000 "0" cars produced, 1000 "1" cars
produced and 1000 "2" cars produced. We can't be sure of the number of "3"
cars produced, but I do see there is a 103934 out there indicating a least
934 "3" cars.

If this is true, it would be hard to explain the lack of "2" cars. Maybe a
statistician out there could tell us what the odds are of getting this
lopsided distribution assuming the VIN numbers are a random sample.

So, it seems unlikely to me that the last 4 digits are all sequential. I
suspect the 3rd number was assigned for some other reason, but I have no idea
if the 3rd number stands for the year or not.

I agree it seems unlikely that Amphicar would have started out with an
expectation of producing less than 1000 cars a year. But, it seems possible
that after the first (or maybe second) years production, someone came up with
the bright idea of rolling the 3 digit up by one for the next years
production.

Anyway, back to my car - 100167 - Am I correct in assuming that a car with a
number this low was almost assuredly manufactured in 1960?

Maybe we can all get our Amphi's carbon-dated.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Schulz Gary-FGS111

   

Normally I don't investigate minutiae very much but this is one area that I have
given considerable thought to and have investigated with the help of some fancy
lab equipment that I have access to. What is really lopsided is the fact that
the vast majority of all cars in the club were then made in 1960, a year that
supposedly very few Amphi's were made (mostly prototypes from what I read). I
believe a handful of prototypes using the Austin (BMC) "A" series engine were
made in 1960. I have a chassis plate that has a VIN # of 100927 but was
definitely built in 1963. Microscopic examination of the back of the chassis
plate reveals that the VIN # and the date were done on exactly the same number
punch set since the penetrations to the back are identical and even the minor
imperfections in the numbers are identical. This can only happen in one of two
ways... either my car was shipped without any VIN# from the factory and was
punched when sold in 1963 (which I am sure is comp!
le!
tely illegal), or my serial 0927 was indeed built in 1963 and was punched by the
factory. I tend to strongly believe this is the later. I will try to download
the picture to Yahoo....

Many chassis plates were not stamped with a build date but I'm sure this one
was....

Gary Schulz

-----Original Message-----
From: rogtwo@aol.com [mailto:rogtwo@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 2:44 PM
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] More thoughts VIN Numbers


The discussion of VIN numbers got me interested in my own VIN Number -
100167.

First, let me make it absolutely clear that I'm new to Amphicars, and know
nothing about VIN numbers except what I just read on this list.

But, I decided to take a look at the VIN numbers listed at:

http://www.amphicar.com/members/members.html

I looked at all the VIN numbers, but (due to my own interest) I will deal
here with only 6 digit VIN numbers that start with "1". I recorded 43 of
these.

I then looked at the third digit in these 43 VIN's. In all cases, the third
digit (from the left) was either a 0, 1, 2, or 3. The following shows how
many of each of these I found:

0's - 20

1's - 11

2's - 1

3's - 11

IF the 3rd digit were just an additional sequential number, then I would
expect to see more 2's. That is, if the last 4 digits were all sequential,
then we would know that there were 1000 "0" cars produced, 1000 "1" cars
produced and 1000 "2" cars produced. We can't be sure of the number of "3"
cars produced, but I do see there is a 103934 out there indicating a least
934 "3" cars.

If this is true, it would be hard to explain the lack of "2" cars. Maybe a
statistician out there could tell us what the odds are of getting this
lopsided distribution assuming the VIN numbers are a random sample.

So, it seems unlikely to me that the last 4 digits are all sequential. I
suspect the 3rd number was assigned for some other reason, but I have no idea
if the 3rd number stands for the year or not.

I agree it seems unlikely that Amphicar would have started out with an
expectation of producing less than 1000 cars a year. But, it seems possible
that after the first (or maybe second) years production, someone came up with
the bright idea of rolling the 3 digit up by one for the next years
production.

Anyway, back to my car - 100167 - Am I correct in assuming that a car with a
number this low was almost assuredly manufactured in 1960?

Maybe we can all get our Amphi's carbon-dated.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
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Marc Schlemmer

   

I, too, hesitate to get into the whole VIN number thing again.....but since
some may like a puzzle, here is some more info if you're interested.
The Club database doesn't have every VIN of every member, but we do have a
lot. On the other hand, we still have info on past members. In all, I have
216 VIN's in the database. No detailed information on each VIN, just the
VIN itself and owner....color and year in most cases.
Of these, going by the theory of the third digit being the year of
manufacture (sixth digit on nine digit VIN's), I looked at the highest
number on file for each year of manufacture. That would be, at a minimum,
the number of cars built during that year.

Here's what I have:

"0" year has a top number of 998.
"1" year has a top number of 996.
"2" year has a top number of 751.
"3" year has a top number of 993.
"4" year has a top number of 179.

Add to that the right hand drive cars that begin in "200". Those have a
highest number on file of 98.

All totaled, these numbers indicate 4015 units built.

I've thought that the number was 3878 total....but I'm not sure. Maybe some
VIN's never were completed and sold?
Also, the numbers look like the Amphicar folks were pushing the limit on the
"1000 per year" concept. Three out of the five years they used them up!

Again....I'm just throwing this info out there for those who like to ponder
the mystery!
Have Fun! (and don't drive yourself crazy!)

Marc Schlemmer.

Ed Price

   

----- Original Message -----
From: rogtwo@aol.com
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 12:43 PM
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] More thoughts VIN Numbers


The discussion of VIN numbers got me interested in my own VIN Number -
100167.

SNIP

Maybe we can all get our Amphi's carbon-dated.


I wonder if there are any other parts that might carry a manufacture date? Do
early tires have a date code anywhere? Maybe some parts within the radio carry a
date code.

BTW, my Amphi is VIN 101808, and legally a 1967. However, it's obviously much
older, having propellor shields but no fender lips. Most telling is that it does
not have a blower. (When did the USCG begin requiring blowers?)

Ed
El Cajon
67 (more or less) Rust Guppy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michael Echemann

   

Tim:
A few of the early cars had the small flip up fill ports on the trannys. Also,
there were at least two and maybe three different types of rear bumpers. Few
but some have the type which curve closer to the car as they twist up. Those
look really sharp and I think those are the ones you probably have.

Ed: your car was purchased by the original owner in 67 strait off the dock in
NYC. I would guess it was an earlier production car which didn't sell there and
was shipped here with others to liquidate once things closed up. Didn't it have
a black top too? That also seems to have been more common on green European
cars than cars over here. Also, cars in Europe like Canada didn't require bilge
blowers.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Price
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] More thoughts VIN Numbers



----- Original Message -----
From: rogtwo@aol.com
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 12:43 PM
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] More thoughts VIN Numbers


The discussion of VIN numbers got me interested in my own VIN Number -
100167.

SNIP

Maybe we can all get our Amphi's carbon-dated.


I wonder if there are any other parts that might carry a manufacture date? Do
early tires have a date code anywhere? Maybe some parts within the radio carry a
date code.

BTW, my Amphi is VIN 101808, and legally a 1967. However, it's obviously much
older, having propellor shields but no fender lips. Most telling is that it does
not have a blower. (When did the USCG begin requiring blowers?)

Ed
El Cajon
67 (more or less) Rust Guppy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before posting requests for information, please check the List
Archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
For more information about this List and other available services
visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
amphicar770@yahoo.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jim Zuliani

   

Enjoyed all the good info regarding the puzzling VINs. As I understood, from
talking to experts at Celina in 2001, there were a total of 4056 Amphicars
built, with 3878 being imported to the US.
As for my own car, it is #100242. I was told at the question and answer
session that this makes it a 1960. But in subsequent research, I've read that
the company produced vehicles from 1961 - 1965. So as I understand it, I have a
1960 built in 1961. And just for good measure, its registered as a '64!
I do know that this car is an early one because of some discrepancies of it's
internal parts based on the manuals. The parking brake assembly comes to mind,
but there are other bits and pieces that are different. Regarding the parking
brake, the repair manuals list two systems, an early version and a late version.
My car's setup predates the early version. Luckily, parts from the later style
fit this system, although the cable adjustments aren't as easy to do nor are as
effective as the other systems.
Just wanted to throw in my two cents.


Jim Z.


----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Schlemmer
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 4:44 PM
To: Amphicar Digest
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] RE: More thoughts VIN Numbers

I, too, hesitate to get into the whole VIN number thing again.....but since
some may like a puzzle, here is some more info if you're interested.
The Club database doesn't have every VIN of every member, but we do have a
lot. On the other hand, we still have info on past members. In all, I have
216 VIN's in the database. No detailed information on each VIN, just the
VIN itself and owner....color and year in most cases.
Of these, going by the theory of the third digit being the year of
manufacture (sixth digit on nine digit VIN's), I looked at the highest
number on file for each year of manufacture. That would be, at a minimum,
the number of cars built during that year.

Here's what I have:

"0" year has a top number of 998.
"1" year has a top number of 996.
"2" year has a top number of 751.
"3" year has a top number of 993.
"4" year has a top number of 179.

Add to that the right hand drive cars that begin in "200". Those have a
highest number on file of 98.

All totaled, these numbers indicate 4015 units built.

I've thought that the number was 3878 total....but I'm not sure. Maybe some
VIN's never were completed and sold?
Also, the numbers look like the Amphicar folks were pushing the limit on the
"1000 per year" concept. Three out of the five years they used them up!

Again....I'm just throwing this info out there for those who like to ponder
the mystery!
Have Fun! (and don't drive yourself crazy!)

Marc Schlemmer.





THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before posting requests for information, please check the List
Archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
For more information about this List and other available services
visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
amphicar770@yahoo.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]