We're still struggling with this beast down here and now have another problem. First we resurfaced an uneven flywheel that solved the horrendous clutch chatter this car had. Then we installed a rebuilt Gordon's clutch and plate to replace the one the car had. The only apparent difference was that carbon clutch bearing. Now...when the clutch is adjusted where the clashing stops while putting it into gear, we entirely lose clutch pull. When we adjust to get pull, you can't get it into gear without clashing. Anything in between goes mostly to more clashing. My mechanic (who by the way was an actual Amtrac mechanic and whizz with old GMs) is talking about physically changing pivot points and other mechanicals. Anyone out there run into this before? Remember, we have ample evidence that this car has been jury rigged in several areas before. - Paul


        
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Look closely at the cross section of the clutch in the Amphicar manual and see the way the actuation arms run parallel to the flywheel face. It must be setup like this, the arms on the cover can be adjusted. The thickness of the pressure plate is critical here, it must be perfect to the milimetre. You need about 10mm of free play on the cable. Could it be the resurfaced flywheel ? They are plentiful here so nobody ever bothers resurfacing them. You have checked and if necessary changed the engine crank thrust washers ? That can cause clutch and lots of other problems if they are really worn (or have been bodged)

David C in the UK

----- Original Message -----
From: azpaul50
To: david@manbus.com
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:05 PM
Subject: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20082] Clutch Adjustment


We're still struggling with this beast down here and now have another problem. First we resurfaced an uneven flywheel that solved the horrendous clutch chatter this car had. Then we installed a rebuilt Gordon's clutch and plate to replace the one the car had. The only apparent difference was that carbon clutch bearing. Now...when the clutch is adjusted where the clashing stops while putting it into gear, we entirely lose clutch pull. When we adjust to get pull, you can't get it into gear without clashing. Anything in between goes mostly to more clashing. My mechanic (who by the way was an actual Amtrac mechanic and whizz with old GMs) is talking about physically changing pivot points and other mechanicals. Anyone out there run into this before? Remember, we have ample evidence that this car has been jury rigged in several areas before. - Paul


        
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GORDON IMPORTS INC.. The world's largest source of Amphicar parts and accessories. Visit our new website today.

I'm not much of a mechanic thankfully the group is full of good ones. But when it comes to the Amphicar clutch John Friese has done all the research and tinkering that anybody could need. If I needed a clutch I'd buy his upgraded/updated clutch. Everybody I know who has ones loves it. Since he's spent so much time on the clutch he should also be able to give you some pointers on what you have.

Eric
White 62 - In Chicago (at least for today)


----- Original Message ----
From: azpaul50 <>
To: e_mattlin@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 4:05:05 PM
Subject: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20082] Clutch Adjustment


We're still struggling with this beast down here and now have another problem. First we resurfaced an uneven flywheel that solved the horrendous clutch chatter this car had. Then we installed a rebuilt Gordon's clutch and plate to replace the one the car had. The only apparent difference was that carbon clutch bearing. Now...when the clutch is adjusted where the clashing stops while putting it into gear, we entirely lose clutch pull. When we adjust to get pull, you can't get it into gear without clashing. Anything in between goes mostly to more clashing. My mechanic (who by the way was an actual Amtrac mechanic and whizz with old GMs) is talking about physically changing pivot points and other mechanicals. Anyone out there run into this before? Remember, we have ample evidence that this car has been jury rigged in several areas before. - Paul


        
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GORDON IMPORTS INC.. The world's largest source of Amphicar parts and accessories. Visit our new website today.

Hello Folks,

I wish I could help on this clutch problem you're having but I never was able to get the chatter out of one of my cars original clutches. Two "professional" rebuilds later and it chattered like crazy. That's one of the reasons I designed my improved clutch system. It uses a modern clutch design, does away with virtually all the chatter and is more durable than the original clutch. Getting those old style clutches to work smoothly is pretty much a "pot luck" issue and, given all the work involved in pulling the engine to change the clutch parts, that is certainly NOT what you want to deal with.

John Friese
67 White
67 Red


        
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John - Actually, the chatter is gone after resurfacing the flywheel! The problem is now clashing the gears. We adjust for smooth gear engagement, we lose clutch pull. We adjust for pull, then it won't go into gear without grinding. ???

To: azpaul50@hotmail.comSubject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20082] Re: Clutch AdjustmentDate: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:24:19 -0400From:



Hello Folks,I wish I could help on this clutch problem you're having but I never was able to get the chatter out of one of my cars original clutches. Two "professional" rebuilds later and it chattered like crazy. That's one of the reasons I designed my improved clutch system. It uses a modern clutch design, does away with virtually all the chatter and is more durable than the original clutch. Getting those old style clutches to work smoothly is pretty much a "pot luck" issue and, given all the work involved in pulling the engine to change the clutch parts, that is certainly NOT what you want to deal with.John Friese67 White67 Red

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Paul,

I've noticed that clutch pedal travel is minimally adequate to operate
the clutch properly. Clutch pedal free play decreases on my car as
operating temperature increases. Seems counterintuitive. One would
think the cable would lengthen with temperature but the change must be
occurring elsewhere. I have about 3/4 inch of free play when cold
which decreases to about 1/4 inch when hot. That limits clutch
disengagement travel when cold.

Looking further I took measurements of the clutch cable anchor points
and found movement. The triangle bracket on the transmission flexed
substantially, enough to visually observe. I moved the cable closer
to the mounting holes thus substantially reducing the amount of flex.
That made a marked improvement in clutch travel.

The front mount at the pedals had a tiny amount of movement but would
be more difficult to improve without welding in some reinforcement.

Another thing to investigate would be cable stretch but haven't done
that.

Good luck,
Ken Chambers, CA




On Jul 13, 2008, at 4:07 AM, azpaul50 wrote:





        
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You can rule out the clutch by looking at what happens with the props, do they engage and disengage as normal. If yes then it's inside the land transmission. If it happens on first gear it's prob not syncro rings, if it only happens on the other gears then it may be. To confirm then drive using the double de-clutch method (learn the technique on someone elses car- ideally a rental) using this method you remove the need for syncro and so should be able to tell if it's something else.

David C
----- Original Message -----
From: azpaul50
To: david@manbus.com
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 12:07 PM
Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20082] Re: Clutch Adjustment


John - Actually, the chatter is gone after resurfacing the flywheel! The problem is now clashing the gears. We adjust for smooth gear engagement, we lose clutch pull. We adjust for pull, then it won't go into gear without grinding. ???

To: azpaul50@hotmail.comSubject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20082] Re: Clutch AdjustmentDate: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:24:19 -0400From:



Hello Folks,I wish I could help on this clutch problem you're having but I never was able to get the chatter out of one of my cars original clutches. Two "professional" rebuilds later and it chattered like crazy. That's one of the reasons I designed my improved clutch system. It uses a modern clutch design, does away with virtually all the chatter and is more durable than the original clutch. Getting those old style clutches to work smoothly is pretty much a "pot luck" issue and, given all the work involved in pulling the engine to change the clutch parts, that is certainly NOT what you want to deal with.John Friese67 White67 Red

__________________________________________________ _______________
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Just curious was Your "rebuilt" pressure plate covered in silver paint? If it is ....well....be wary. When You pull back out look at arm that holds release bearing. They do fatigue. Also do the "jiggle" test on Your input shaft-manual calls it drive shaft- If it has lots of up and down movement, your trans will need attention. If You run it with lots of play You will ultimately need a new shaft. It is very expensive. If ok at least replace the seal. Clean hole out with brake clean or similar. I use a dab of Indian head shellac on outside seal surface. Then after in a couple of punch marks-go easy- Never use silicone/rtv glues. Also clean outside edge of seal before install. Later Dave the Wave,P.S. I have done lots of transmissions now,so if You need more help just call.


        
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Hello Again,

For what it's worth, there is 3/4" of movement from unpressed pedal to fully pressed on the clutch cable of my cars. That measurement is taken by simply pulling the slack out of the cable by hand and having someone press the clutch pedal. Some of these cars had a clutch pedal stopper screw under the pedal arm. Be sure this is fully turned down for maximum movement.

John Friese
67 White
67 Red


        
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Double clutching doesn't make much of a difference especially into first gear. The props turn fine in either direction although that is in a static condition and not under water load. God forbid that this vehicle makes it into water anytime soon. I was afraid you were going to say transmission...

To: azpaul50@hotmail.comSubject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20082] Re: Clutch AdjustmentDate: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:40:36 -0400From:



You can rule out the clutch by looking at what happens with the props, do they engage and disengage as normal. If yes then it's inside the land transmission. If it happens on first gear it's prob not syncro rings, if it only happens on the other gears then it may be. To confirm then drive using the double de-clutch method (learn the technique on someone elses car- ideally a rental) using this method you remove the need for syncro and so should be able to tell if it's something else. David C ----- Original Message ----- From: azpaul50 To: david@manbus.com Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 12:07 PMSubject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20082] Re: Clutch AdjustmentJohn - Actually, the chatter is gone after resurfacing the flywheel! The problem is now clashing the gears. We adjust for smooth gear engagement, we lose clutch pull. We adjust for pull, then it won't go into gear without grinding. ???To: azpaul50@hotmail.comSubject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20082] Re: Clutch AdjustmentDate: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:24:19 -0400From: Hello Folks,I wish I could help on this clutch problem you're having but I never was able to get the chatter out of one of my cars original clutches. Two "professional" rebuilds later and it chattered like crazy. That's one of the reasons I designed my improved clutch system. It uses a modern clutch design, does away with virtually all the chatter and is more durable than the original clutch. Getting those old style clutches to work smoothly is pretty much a "pot luck" issue and, given all the work involved in pulling the engine to change the clutch parts, that is certainly NOT what you want to deal with.John Friese67 White67 Red_______________________________________________ ___ _______________Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger.http://www.windowslive.com/messenger...ssenger_072008

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