I attended the Kruse auction today and a fully restored '67 Amphi, Fjord Green over Apricot went across the block. The car was restored by an experienced and sophisticated antique car restorer as part of an episode for an upcoming cable TV car program to be aired on the National Geographic channel. The car was probably one of the nicest Amphis I have seen. I spoke to him at length and he said he used original NOS parts whenever he could find them. He used Gord Souter and Gordons parts. Although I am not an expert, from my experience owning a '64 Amphi in original, unrestored condition for almost 4 years and buying bits and pieces as needed, it was done up right. It was a complete ground up, nuts and bolts, mechanical and cosmetic restoration and it looked it. I did not get the VIN number. The bidding went up to $58,000 and stalled there. The seller did not let it go for that. He had told me he had somewhere around $75,000 in the car, and announced on the block that he would lift the reserve at $70,000, but there were no takers. I guess this shows that you cannot restore an Amphi (to better than new condition) and be ahead of the market any more (at least not now).

Ariel Poplack
Ft. Lauderdale


        

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Ariel Poplack
Ft. Lauderdale
'66 Aqua Amphi

Here is a recent article on that Amphi's maiden voyage.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...8-1643596.html

I think that the overall market for collector cars is in bad shape at the moment, not just Amphicars.* Lots of people out of work, and people can no longer tap into those easy home equity loans based on 5x the actual value of their homes.* It is a great time to be a buyer.* Still, an investment in a top quality amphi (or other collectible) is still probably a better investment than most stocks!


        

58k sounds pretty darn good !!! Guessing at numbers, his "loss" was maybe 12k. Maybe his business did not make a profit but everyone got paid. Hours of TV time sounds like an advertising write off. For such a big TV show and the drama, he should of went balls to the wall and NO RESERVE!!! Later Dave the been there done that Wave


        

I am still blown away at how fast the collector car market dropped. Specifically Amphicars. For the last 12 years that I have been interested in Amphicars we enjoyed a constant 10%-15% rise in value. In the last year they have dropped 25%+- depending on the quality. Better cars hold thier value longer while lesser cars loose value quickly.


        

Hi John,
Respectfully, I disagree.
Frankly, everything from houses, to salaries, and certainly to collector cars (and especially Amphicars) have had their values inflated to levels which were unprecedented, and far beyond what is reasonable, and a correction was long overdue.
Besides if you were enjoying 15% annual appreciation for the past several years, then a 25% reduction in value, represents a correction of less than two years appreciation, which is far less than most other commodities.
The ridiculous and unrealistic value set at that auction with the 140K plus Amphicar, set an unrealistic expectation for the value of all other Amphicars, and like a good game of musical chairs, things had to eventually settle down once the music stopped playing. I pity the poor guy who is holding that 140K Amphicar (if it was a real sale at that price) when the music stopped playing!
Amphicars should have a realistic value of between $40K and $60K for very nice, properly restored, examples. For many years, they were undervalued and nice examples could be had for $24K to $35K, which was fortunate for many of us, but even recently, anything over $50K was unreasonably high for this particular commodity. That is not to say that people were not paying that, but those sales usually represented affluent buyers paying over market value for a novelty or unusual toy, particularly when the buyer was accustomed to paying several hundred thousand dollars for his usual type of car. In other words, this was a rather cheap toy for some very wealthy car enthusiasts. I have seen this with the microcars as buyers who often spend over $100K for Ferrari's, are happy to drop 20K to 30K on a microcar that is really worth around 10K to 14K. Many people have speculated on this particular appeal including some on this list.
The other thing that affects these cars is that most collectors of high end cars over $50K, usually pamper their cars, and often trailer them to shows and events, with many examples actually never being driven.
The inherent value of an Amphicar lies in its ability to be put into water, which immediately starts to deteriorate any restoraton, and which requires additional maintanance costs and effort to preserve the car.
In other words, if an investor or collector intends to use it in the water, it is hard to keep it as nice as the original restoration. If, on the other hand, he does not intend to use it in the water, it becomes significantly less valuable to that particular collector, as the unique characteristic of the Amphicar is lost on someone who won't put it in the drink.
I have had this delema presented to me with zero mileage Honda CBX motorcycles, which were offered for sale to me. On the one hand, a zero mileage CBX is worth a premium for the simple fact that it has never been used. However, if the buyer does not intend to use it, it becomes less valuable to a TRUE enthusiast, although it may be more valuable to a speculator or "investor". If, on the other hand, the TRUE enthusiast intends to ride the bike, he will destroy the premium value once he starts putting miles on that bike, and would be wiser to pay less for a nice, but non-zero mileage example, if he intends to ride it anyhow.
The exception to this rule would be the resale speculators, and all collector car speculation has dropped significantly as it is harder to insure a return on your investment in these difficult times.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Chas




QUOTE=CapnJohn;39326]I am still blown away at how fast the collector car market dropped. Specifically Amphicars. For the last 12 years that I have been interested in Amphicars we enjoyed a constant 10%-15% rise in value. In the last year they have dropped 25%+- depending on the quality. Better cars hold thier value longer while lesser cars loose value quickly.[/quote]


        

I agree with that 100%. I have been going to 3-4 classic car auctions a year for the past 10 years at least, and was really surprised at the low prices cars were selling for this weekend. I, unfortunately, am not in the market to purchase a collector car this year, but if I was, there were some really wonderful deals that I was sad to have missed out on. I'm a little surprised how many people actually lifted their reserves and let cars go at substantial losses. I guess we are all hurting a bit.


        

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I agree, prices have fallen, but mine is still worth $100,000. At least to my son and me. We love our Amphicar, its been in our family since new.
Dave Wind - White 1966
-----Original Message----- From: Firechief Sent: Jan 5, 2009 6:50 PM To: dhwind@earthlink.net Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20283] Re: '67 Amphi at Kruse Boca Raton, FL auction






Quote:




Originally Posted by mike_israel
Here is a recent article on that Amphi's maiden voyage.With cameras rolling, Amphicar's maiden voyage a success (phillyBurbs.com) | IntelligencerI think that the overall market for collector cars is in bad shape at the moment, not just Amphicars.* Lots of people out of work, and people can no longer tap into those easy home equity loans based on 5x the actual value of their homes.* It is a great time to be a buyer.* Still, an investment in a top quality amphi (or other collectible) is still probably a better investment than most stocks!I agree with that 100%. I have been going to 3-4 classic car auctions a year for the past 10 years at least, and was really surprised at the low prices cars were selling for this weekend. I, unfortunately, am not in the market to purchase a collector car this year, but if I was, there were some really wonderful deals that I was sad to have missed out on. I'm a little surprised how many people actually lifted their reserves and let cars go at substantial losses. I guess we are all hurting a bit.


        

Yes the value has declined to more realalistic values,but when econimy gets back in the grove they will be worth a bit more so hold on if you can,sales of restored cars has stalled for me but unrestored are still selling good at the 15-25, 000 range.Parts sale were very good in 2008 and lots were sold to this car owner inluding the interior kit.


        

I also agree, I had alot of old cars in the past and there is nothing like an amphicar? Even through mine is
not a 100 point car, It is by far the most fun i have ever had in a car/boat. When you pull up on a island
everybody loves to come take a look. And there are at lease six amphis around me? And i mean in a
ten mile radious. One day i am going to get us all together and send some pictures to the club news
letter.



To: pvcj@hotmail.comSubject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20283] Re: '67 Amphi at Kruse Boca Raton, FL auctionDate: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 22:41:14 -0500From:


body{font-family: Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color: #ffffff;color: black;}I agree, prices have fallen, but mine is still worth $100,000. At least to my son and me. We love our Amphicar, its been in our family since new.Dave Wind - White 1966-----Original Message----- From: Firechief Sent: Jan 5, 2009 6:50 PM To: dhwind@earthlink.net Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20283] Re: '67 Amphi at Kruse Boca Raton, FL auction Quote:Originally Posted by mike_israel Here is a recent article on that Amphi's maiden voyage.With cameras rolling, Amphicar's maiden voyage a success (phillyBurbs.com) | IntelligencerI think that the overall market for collector cars is in bad shape at the moment, not just Amphicars.* Lots of people out of work, and people can no longer tap into those easy home equity loans based on 5x the actual value of their homes.* It is a great time to be a buyer.* Still, an investment in a top quality amphi (or other collectible) is still probably a better investment than most stocks!I agree with that 100%. I have been going to 3-4 classic car auctions a year for the past 10 years at least, and was really surprised at the low prices cars were selling for this weekend. I, unfortunately, am not in the market to purchase a collector car this year, but if I was, there were some really wonderful deals that I was sad to have missed out on. I'm a little surprised how many people actually lifted their reserves and let cars go at substantial losses. I guess we are all hurting a bit.

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A few things are at work here.

The over 100K$ prices of a couple of years ago were a US only bubble puffed up by all that sub prime funny money sloshing about ! The effect on Amphicar prices was not seen anywhere else in the world.

RM auctions "bent" the market with a new way of selling - loud, brash, free bar.... very different to the normal way and very much a US only thing.... but it was good for them and did achieve some spectacular prices on ordinaryish cars.

As things return to normal the US market has taken a hit because the dollar is so strong relative to other world currencies (the Presidential effect) this means the normal steady flow of quality - mainly 1960s - German and British cars back to Europe from the Southern States has stopped dead


The European auctions are still doing reasonably well and good stuff is still selling at good prices - in fact next month there will be a real market test, a UK registered Bugatti Type 57 - recently discovered in a bricked up garage here - is going under the hammer at the Paris Retromobile classic show it is expected to make the equiv of 10 Million $US

Don't think links work here so for the story Google Bugatti Type 57S Atalante number 57502


David C in the UK.